History of CueCat and Jovan
Interview Transcription
Williams: Hello,
everybody. I’m Michael
Williams. Welcome to another
edition of “Technology Superstars” where we take the famous and infamous, and
ask the questions where are they now, and what, if any, mark on society and
technology they left. Our guest
today is renowned author, entrepreneur, inventor, and many other things. Why don’t you give me a clue on how to
– what are we calling you these days?
Jovan: Isn’t that funny, that people kind of get
confused by that? I‘m Jovan. I
will always be Jovan. I was born
Jovan. That name’s been passed
down in my family for generations upon generations, but people get confused
because there was some talk after the CueCat days, years later, of an event
that happened 15, 16 years ago of me changing my name, just like Marion Michael
Morrison. Do you know who that is?
Williams: No,
not at all.
Jovan: Thomas Mathaper, you know who that is?
Williams: No.
Jovan: You’re lying.
Williams: I
swear, I. . .
Jovan: Thomas – no?
Williams: Don’t
know those names.
Jovan: Thomas Mataper, Tom Cruise. Marion Michael Morrison, John
Wayne. It’s common in media for
people to use different names or change their name to become more marketable,
and I mean, if you read my background, yeah, I’ve done technology, and people
know Jovan, or you know Jovan Pulitzer or J. Hutton Whelitzer. I don’t know why people got hung up on
that. I changed my name back when
I was a media personality, long before I became a tech superstar. They just kind of merged later on and
some writer took off with it.
Williams: Okay. Well, I was hoping we would. . .
Jovan: Just call me Jovan.
Williams: Hoping
we would kind of ease into this a little bit more, but since you bring it
up. The reason I ask is, you read
a lot about you on the internet, and if you listen to what they say on the
internet, you changed your name as soon as digital convergence went belly
up. All of a sudden you dropped
Jovan, and that was it.
Jovan: No, no.
Williams: So
you can’t blame a guy for wanting to know.
Jovan: Two things I’d blame. If you think reading on the internet as news, then I would
blame you. The internet is not
news. Anybody can publish to the
internet now.
Williams: Point
taken.
Jovan: So internet is not news. Let me just position two things,
okay? I changed my name, mainly
because once I really got known in the public, people only knew me as Jovan to
begin with. People knew I had a
last name that began with “P”, right, and I was Jovan. I was a one-name moniker, like –
somebody wrote like Cher or Unibomber once. It was just Jovan to begin with.
Williams: Well,
never read that you were that bad.
Jovan: It’s still Jovan, but one day, long story very
short. I just had a stalker from
our TV show show up at my home because he saw my license plate and crisscrossed
it on a database, and showed up at my home. Knock on the door, and here’s this big, burly man with
cornrowed hair. Big old guy,
tattooed and everything.
Showed up on my door with flowers, and of course I think he’s there for
my co-host at the time, who was my wife, and no. He was interested in me. Not that I have anything against man-love, to each their
own, but it wasn’t for me. He just
wasn’t my type.
Williams: I
understand.
(Laughter)
Jovan: It just scared the hell out of me. I lived in a gated community. How does somebody get in, how does
somebody find out where I live? So
in a move to merge the media personality with the real personality, I started
changing my name. Then back in
those days, I was supposed to be Wall Street Wunderkind, and doing this huge
IPO. The bankers asked me to hold
off, and it all kind of merged after digital went down.
Remember, changing your name is not
like a woman getting married and she assumes the marriage name. Guys aren’t like that when you change
your name. You go through numerous
background checks and FBI checks, and the whole bit before you can ever change
your name. It’s a multi-year
process to get it done.
So that’s old news. Somebody wrote about it and tried to
tie it together with other stuff.
It’s just because people search my name. CueCat is part of pop history now. Everybody knows it, whether they used
it or not, right?
Williams: Absolutely.
Jovan: So it’s part of pop history, and if it drives
people to a website to make them listen, they’re going to say everything. They’ve written from that to what lunch
I was having at a restaurant with my two year old son. It’s just stupid to be a public figure
sometimes.
Williams: Well,
let me say that in researching for this interview, it’s obvious I found no
shortage of information on you.
Browsing the web, any number of periodicals, ad infinitium.
Jovan: 17,800-some odd articles, although I’m not
counting, and it’s probably 70/30, 30% the true stuff and 70% absolute crap.
Williams: Well,
and that’s why you’re here, basically, is because looking at all that stuff,
your professional portfolio, your professional and your personal portfolio,
read like a 3-D rollercoaster.
Jovan: Well, the CEO of Radio Shack told me best in a
recent meeting I had with him, because I still deal with most of these people
and know them. He said, “Jovan,
there’s a difference between your reputation and your image”. I have a sterling reputation. I can create technology, fantastic
technology, have done billions in sales.
I have an incredible reputation with the people I deal with.
On the other hand, my image took a
hit, and yeah. CueCat created an
image problem, but it was very interesting. I sat down with Robert Decker, which is the chairman,
vice-chairman of Belo, [inaudible 05:56] Morning News, one of my huge investors. If you were to read something on the
street you would think I got Belo in this deal and took a $40 million investment
from them and hauled ass.
I sat down with Robert, and Robert
said, “Anybody that’s truly in business understands that you had one of the
most sophisticated deals, with sophisticated people, best law firms, best minds
in the world. It was probably the
most powerful deal of its time ever done, and we were all big boys going into
it”. So somebody reading generic
stuff will always think those generic things. I can’t necessarily deal with that, but I can tell you, most
people think the Cat died, but it didn’t.
Williams: Well,
I think we’re getting ahead of ourselves a little bit here. For those of you that aren’t familiar
with Jovan, before the CueCat ever came to be, there was your talk show.
Jovan: Right.
Net Talk. . .
Williams: I
mean, of course you had ventures before that.
Jovan: Well, I was an agent, basically. Think of a Jerry McGuire. I packaged people up and I built them
into television and radio personalities.
I just decided after a time to stop doing it for other people, do it for
myself, and I created – I happened to work on a project which allowed me to
help a company become the single largest ISP in the United States, an Internet
Service Provider. I learned about
this internet way back way. In
fact, I did a book. I have a book
out there from 1992 called The Next Generation. It’s when we were still calling it the Information Super
Highway, and I was predicting this would happen.
Williams: Those
were the days.
Jovan: Right.
There’s 500 channels and all this stuff. I decided, hey, people don’t understand technology. Let’s do a television show about it,
and back there we started doing a television show, basically tech help on the
air. Created this phenomenal show
that people loved, and thousands of people would come to our live appearances
in doing it. It was through that I
learned how technology would merge and I originally started testing my
theories.
Williams: All
right here. We’re skipping around
a little bit, but while you’re on that subject, you don’t have a noted technological
background, correct?
Jovan: No, I’m a. . .
Williams: I
mean as far as studies go.
Jovan: No, literally.
Williams: As
in circuit doing.
Jovan: Circuit doing?
Williams: Circuit
doing. That’s one of my more. . .
Jovan: Yeah, it’s very technical.
Williams: Thank
you very much.
Jovan: I like it. Yeah, circuit doing.
I have done many circuits.
I did the circuit at the Bally’s Fitness Club; I did all the machines
that time.
Williams: Better
then I ever did.
Jovan: I’ve done the radio circuit, I’ve done the talk
show circuit, I’ve done the newspaper circuit. No, I’m not a code writer. I’m not a code head.
I’m a visionary, a strategic thinker, and my mind at any one time is
looking 10 years into the future of what’s going to be. That’s where I specialize. I could not write a piece of code if my
life depended on it, but I am literate in technologies, and I think it’s
because I don’t have a code head background. I only think in terms of can do, not can’t do, and I think
techno-heads only think about the limitations of hardware and software, and
they tend to think in noes. I
think in yeses.
Williams: The
whole left-brain, right-brain thing, the creative versus the mathy side. Would you think you’re more of a flat
creative as opposed to the code head, who’s going to be a mathy kind of a guy?
Jovan: Well, I think I split down the middle. If you were to look at how my mind
thinks, not going into IQs or anything like that, but probably the mind I have
the closest to is J. Edgar Hoover.
I know that sounds really weird, right?
Williams: No,
go ahead. Qualify that.
Jovan: Well, it doesn’t mean we used to share the same
make-up and dresses or anything.
Williams: Thank
you for qualifying that.
Jovan: J. Edgar, did you know that he was the one that
organized the information retrieval system way back when for the Library of
Congress? Most people don’t even
know that, right?
Williams: No.
Jovan: He created that entire card cataloguing numeric
system for the Library of Congress so you could find those books in a
heartbeat. Remember, we’re talking
about 1920s, ‘30s, and stuff like that.
He also knew that everybody, just like me, everybody has a unique
identifier. His unique identifier
was fingerprints, and they just thought it was a joke. Fingerprints? How in the hell is fingerprints going to help us catch
notorious criminals?
He could think out of the box. He could see where things were going,
and he could see mathematically what had to occur. So he kept on pushing for this fingerprint database, and
fingerprint as a way of identifying.
That’s the same thing I did.
I realized the internet works on words, but under the words are numbers. All I did was reverse it. Numbers can mean words instead of words
meaning numbers, and everything in the world has a code; even you have codes.
Williams: Yes,
DNA.
Jovan: DNA, driver’s license.
Williams: Yes.
Jovan: Social Security Number, student ID card,
military card, date of birth, health club. You have all these codes.
Williams: Well,
I don’t have the health club code.
Look at me.
Jovan: Well, we won’t go there. Look at me, running in on this cold day
in the big city, coming in and drinking my Starbuck’s. Hey, this is my form of exercise. I’m exercising my jaws.
Williams: So
to inform people a little bit more, before we go to break. Inform people a little bit more about
you. We’ve told you about Net
Talk, we’ve told you about CueCat just a little bit.
Jovan: Yeah.
Television show led to a technology, and I became notorious.
Williams: Yes,
but why are you here? All that
cumulated in the CueCat.
Jovan: Yes and no. Most people would associate me with the device known as
CueCat. I was forced by the public
to create CueCat. Most people
don’t know that. Think I’m the
creator of CueCat. No. The public. . .
Williams: Well,
that’s awfully magnanimous thing of you to say, the public made me do it.
Jovan: It’s just true.
Williams: Quality
that.
Jovan: Well, numbers had to connect, and if I was to
spit off a stream of 28 numbers for you to type into your computer real quick
to go to a website, the chances of you entering those 28 numbers perfectly, not
doing a typo, with spaces and dashes and everything else in it, are not very
good. That’s a failure. So I had to reduce the failure rate and
I had to address consumers in a way they would understand. It was just a simple idea. You saw scanning in a check-out store,
right?
Williams: Right.
Jovan: I just figured, hey, that’s the easiest way for
people to enter in the numbers and not get them wrong. So the. . .
Williams: The
old barcodes?
Jovan: That’s right. The consumers needed something to enter the numbers, and
they were, at the time, identified as barcodes. Barcodes meant nothing. They meant $0.99, and it’s Oscar Meyer, and it’s out of the
inventory, but it was made to mean something else. What we really created was a GPS for the internet, and I
know we’re going to go to break.
Always, it’s just like this when I hear these things. I get right up close to the wall when I
do it. No, I did not create
CueCat. The world created CueCat,
and I’ll explain that.
Williams: You
heard it here, folks.
Jovan: No, I’m not blaming the world. I’ll take full credit for the dumbest
invention in the world.
Williams: Get
on your blog. World, look what
you’ve done. For the better or
worse, you created CueCat. We will
be back in a moment. Thanks for
listening.
[Music 13:23-13:50]
Williams: Welcome
back, folks. We are talking with –
see, I’m caught again. J. Hutton
Pulitzer.
Jovan: Jovan.
Williams: Jovan.
Jovan: My friends call me Jovan. My business associates call me
Hutton. Those are people that
don’t know me personally.
Williams: Well,
see, I knew those two facts, and I didn’t know which category I sat in at this
very moment.
Jovan: Well, depending on how this interview goes, you
may be able to call me Jovan.
Williams: I
might as well take advantage of Jovan while I can.
Jovan: Yeah, or you might be able to get on the web
and post, add to the other 8,999,000 flames out there.
Williams: I’m
really interested in going deeper then that, because that’s the whole reason I
do these interviews, is to go deeper then the flames, the blogs, the Dallas
Observers, the Wall
Street Journal, the
little glib reports. That’s really
what I consider a lot of reports about people that I interview. They go one layer in, and they leave
all the other layers out because it doesn’t suit them.
Jovan: I came across a quote once that is a Russian
Cold War quote that I think said, “There is no truth in the news, and there is
no news in the truth”. Truth
really doesn’t sell.
Sensationalism sells.
Sensationalism sells.
Williams: Unfortunately,
actually.
Jovan: Truth doesn’t necessarily sell. People don’t want to know the
truth. It’s like this one case of
this guy that went to Aruba with this girl just recently and she
disappeared. They incarcerated him
for four months, but when he got released and got here, you find out, they said
he went to some remote area and all this.
They were 100 yards from the dive shop.
Williams: Yeah,
I saw those.
Jovan: 100 yards from the dive shop. That’s how sensationalism sells, and
unfortunately CueCat, the little scanning device that you could hook to your
computer and scan to barcodes, which most people know me for, got caught in
that sensationalism thing. It was
shared with me by a very smart person that said, “You were the guy that made
the media companies converge”. It
wasn’t a media company out there decided hey, we’re going to get on the
internet and play this internet game.
When I started broadcasting about the internet, there were 800 websites,
globally.
Williams: What
are we talking; we’re talking late ‘90s.
Jovan: No, no.
We’re talking early ‘90s.
Williams: Mid-‘90s?
Jovan: We’re talking ’93 when I first. . .
Williams: So
you’re talking. . .
Jovan: ’92 when my book came out, ’94 when I started
talking about it on the air.
Williams: Pre-Net
Talk?
Jovan: Right.
When Net Talk came out, there were less then 5000 websites across the
web. The next year there were
15,000 websites. There weren’t
even pictures on the web, Mr. Williams.
There weren’t even pictures.
What was a blaring modem speed had just come out of 2800 baud, blazing
speed. Come on. So I’ve been at this for a very, very
long time, understanding technology and stuff. What happened was, and this very wise chairman of the board
told me this 10 years later. That,
“You were the guy that forced media to upgrade, and because you forced media to
upgrade two things happened. You
had the old school techno-writers and writers that did not want to change their
ways, and they were forced to by this young whipper-snapper kid from Dallas,
Texas,” me, “who came in, showed this technology, and their companies adopted
it. It forced them to
change”.
So two things happened. They hated my guts for making them
change their old ways, and they were terrified that their jobs were going to go
away, that newspapers were going to die and all this other stuff. So he said, “You were the guy that
forced them to change, and unfortunately when the dot-com crash happened, they
took it out on you,” and then I learned a very interesting thing that I could
have never predicted then. I’ll
digress just a little bit and tell you [inaudible 17:46] story.
When I wanted to get to Bill Gates,
I went to Warren Buffett. Now, why
do you go to Warren Buffett to Bill Gates? Well, one thing I knew about Bill Gates is Bill Gates was a
bridge player and so was Warren Buffett.
Bill Gates and Warren Buffett are on the same bridge team. I knew their ace in the hole. Let’s say, Mr. Williams, you and I --
I’ll call you Michael, I’m sorry.
Williams: Go
ahead.
Jovan: Michael, you and I are going to go play
hoops. I’m not necessarily in
shape.
Williams: Well,
as you can see, I’m not necessarily in shape.
Jovan: Right?
We’re going to go play hoops, but you and I are going to go get Michael
Jordan to be our third. We got a
better chance of winning because we got Michael Jordan. He’s our ringer. Well, I knew Bill Gates’ and Warren
Buffett’s ringer. That’s how I got
to them. That’s how all this thing
just started to take off, and you get into it, and we forced the world to
change, but look at my partners. I
would have thought man, having a ringer, having Bill Gates, having the Dallas
Morning News and
having Hearst Magazines, and having Fortune Magazine would have been great.
So let’s just play a role here real
quick. I have my technology and
I’m going to Fortune Magazine, and they’re going to be the first interactive magazine in
the world, which they were. You’re
Time Magazine. Are you going to talk about it?
Williams: No.
Jovan: Because you don’t want them to be successful
because they’re your competitor, right?
Williams: Right.
Jovan: If they make a misstep, are you going to talk
about it?
Williams: Absolutely.
Jovan: There you go. I did not know that then. I thought, get the best at what they do.
Williams: So
you thought you actually had friends in the industry?
Jovan: You could call it that, but I didn’t realize
how just freaking cutthroat it was.
Dallas Morning News is this great company that’s always associated with
wonderful technology and doing stuff before its time, but Dallas Morning
News is an
institution, a powerhouse. Well, I
can partner with the Dallas Morning News, but is the Chicago Tribune going to give me any traction, or
going to want to deploy my technology?
They’re going to sit back.
So in creating the best thing, I
also created the worst thing because I handicapped it a little by having the
best partners in the world. They
wanted to see how it was going to go; we got caught up in this dot-com stuff
and 9-11. We can go into that if
you want, but it’s a hard subject, but I will. You know what?
The cutthroat stuff was so hard that people wanted to sit back and wait,
and when we did go down because of the dot-com crash, not because of
technology.
Here’s a simple fact that the media
never talks about. Probably one of
my number one points that upsets me the most. CueCat had 1 million installed registered users in its first
30 days. We beat cellphones,
pagers, Facebook, internet chat, the use of laptops, the adoption of computers
themselves. It took a lot of those
companies years. It took AOL years
to get to a million users. We did
it in 30 days. We were the fastest
growing adopted hardware technology ever in the history of the world, until, of
course, Steve Jobs, rest his soul, did his wonderful thing with iPads and
everything else like that.
We eclipsed it all. They never talked about it. Why? Because that would be a feather in Belo and all these other [inaudible
21:01] they’re not
going to do that. They’re just
going to talk about this Jovan huckster.
Williams: You
all did flood the market. You
absolutely flooded.
Jovan: Why would you not flood the market?
Williams: No,
to your credit.
Jovan: That was planned.
Williams: I
mean, I would call it saturated, because I couldn’t go into some appliance, I
don’t know if it was Best Buy.
Jovan: Radio Shack.
Williams: Radio
Shack.
Jovan: Radio Shack.
Williams: There
were some other appliance store that had them.
Jovan: Yeah.
Why did we choose Radio Shack?
99% of America lives three miles or three minutes from a Radio Shack,
and goes in their doors almost twice a year. We hit everybody in America by doing it. They were a brilliant partner. I could not have asked for a better
partner then Radio Shack. I went
to the scanning companies, but they wanted to create a $1,000 scanner because
they couldn’t include it, and they certainly, again, didn’t want me creating
competition for them. So I had to
think outside the box and figure a different way to do it, which I took my
licks for.
The scanning industry had to
pooh-pooh the Cat, and say it was a failure because it would crater their
$1,000 scanners. They’re made to
do $1,000 scanners. I wanted to
give away scanners. We got
scanning down to $0.21 a unit.
$0.21 a unit. They couldn’t
make anything less then $600. They
needed us to go down. I kind of
laugh at it today. CueCat’s one of
the best-selling items on E-bay.
People still have CueCat.
There’s over 2000 programs using CueCat today.
Williams: There
are cult fan sites for CueCat still, I’ve noticed.
Jovan: Yes, there are.
Williams: We’re
about to go to break. You had your
say, Jovan, and your version of this.
Here’s what I want to do when we come back. I want to tell you my side of the story as I read it on the
internet, as a lot of people have, and you can tell me where I’m just dead
wrong.
Jovan: Okay, let me have it.
Williams: We’ll
be back, folks.
[Music 22:42-23:29[
Williams: We’re
back, folks.
Jovan: Beating on the door.
Williams: This
is one good show. Fantastically
interesting, Jovan. Jovan, I’m still
good with Jovan, right?
Jovan: We’re fine. We’re still friends so far.
Williams: Going
into this segment, Segment Three and I’m still Jovan with you.
Jovan: The man, the myth, the Cat killer.
Williams: Yes,
sir. Well, we’re going to talk
about that, because the last segment, you were basically telling us how it was
a little bit, a very light version.
Jovan: I’m used to being beat up over it, have it, do
it.
Williams: Well,
here’s what I want to do. I want
to tell you my side of the story, of how I see it and how I’ve read it. I can’t say I have facts; all I can go
off of is whatever.
Jovan: Just note right here, I bet you have more facts
then you think, and I’ll prove it to you.
You go ahead, let me have it.
Williams: Well,
okay. We’ll see. Jovan that I read and know about had
the show Net Talk Live, and out of Net Talk Live came CueCat. Out of CueCat came millions and
millions and millions of dollars in investments.
Jovan: $200 million.
Williams: Okay,
$200 million. That was a little
more then I thought, very nice.
$200 million. CueCat was
in, what, the Wall Street Journal, I believe.
Jovan: It was everywhere.
Williams: It
was everywhere. It was in. . . .
Jovan: Newspapers. The first interactive phonebook, the first interactive
magazine, the first interactive newspaper, the first interactive movie poster,
on and on. 16 million products at
retail you could scan and do everything, but go ahead. Let me have it.
Williams: So
the versions you read about what happened with the investment money vary, quite
amusingly. I’m not even going to
really dignify because this isn’t that kind of show. I mean, some had you. . .
Jovan: You want to get into the gossip, come on.
Williams: Some
had you moving off to like, I don’t know, exotic North Texas.
Jovan: If you read some accounts, the company went
down because I absconded with $40 million from Belo, which is just absolutely
laughable. You’ll remember, we
were a highly audited company for an IPO and the whole bit. Not a single lawsuit, not a single –
our partners would have loved to have had their thing survive, but it was just
a dot-com crash. Again,
sensationalism sells.
Williams: Okay. So we’ll put a pause, a big question
mark on the money for a moment.
Jovan: Okay.
Williams: We’ll
talk about the CueCat itself.
Jovan: Okay.
Williams: This
is what made me want to have you on the show in the first place.
Jovan: And thank you for that.
Williams: Absolutely. The facts out there about you and the
CueCat were just a little too hazy, and that made me curious, because if you
believe what you read, you made this cool little cat-looking device that you
had to plug into a computer. Then
you can. . .
Jovan: Scan any code, go right to the web.
Williams: Scan
any kind of barcoded item in the grocery store or whatever, and it’ll pop you
up to a website or to whatever, a specific place.
Jovan: Right.
That’s called linking the physical world to the virtual world. We took anything in the physical plane
and made it talk to the virtual plane, but go ahead.
Williams: Okay. So you made, what was it, 3 million of
these initially?
Jovan: Yeah.
1 million PS2 devices, 2 million USB devices, and we never got to
release the cellphone version, the PDA version, the keychain version, the key
fob version, the handheld small pocket scanner version, and all the
others. We didn’t get to those
because of the dot-com crash. Go
ahead.
Williams: There
was a prototype or a Cross. . .
Jovan: Pen.
Williams: A
pen.
Jovan: Yeah, there was a pen that did it as well.
Williams: I
remember seeing that somewhere.
Jovan: Yes, yes.
Remember, there was no unconnected technology then, and cellphones were
just . . .
Williams: Cellphones.
Jovan: Barely had cameras in them at the time, but go
ahead.
Williams: Yeah,
you couldn’t take pictures or any of that.
Jovan: You’re talking 12 years ago.
Williams: Okay,
where was I?
Jovan: You’re going to give me all the nasty stuff
said about me.
Williams: 3
million – I have no problem catching up on it.
Jovan: Okay.
Williams: 3
million of these things. You gave
them away.
Jovan: Free.
Williams: You
gave them away, plus each one of these devices came with a disk.
Jovan: Right.
Williams: In
accounts on the internet, that’s what bankrupted the company.
Jovan: No, what bankrupted the company. . .
Williams: Is
the fact that no one wanted these.
Not only did you give away these things. You gave them away.
No one made any money off of it.
I guess the people you, I don’t know, like vendors or the newspapers, no
one liked it.
Jovan: Clients, yeah.
Williams: Yeah,
and it was just a big, big technology dud.
Jovan: Okay.
Williams: Then
here you are, talking to me.
Jovan: Yeah.
Williams: I
mean, really that’s in a nutshell.
Jovan: Let’s point something out. You wouldn’t be talking to me if it was
a dud. I mean, come on. I’ve had to endure. You’ve heard what was written about
me. What are some of the things
you’ve heard about my technology?
Williams: Well,
written, I’ve got just a couple of them. Mark Cuban, I believe, said that it
was the stupidest invention he’d ever seen.
Jovan: Yes.
Williams: The
Wall Street Journal, was it them that said. . .
Jovan: Yeah, it’s not even worth it, even if it’s
free.
Williams: Yeah,
you wouldn’t need something like that if it was free.
Jovan: Okay.
Williams: Does
it seem they were right?
Jovan: No, they were not right. They were dead wrong, absolutely
wrong. Just because you’re a
billionaire does not mean you can predict the future. Let me explain.
Williams: Will
agree with you.
Jovan: Let me explain. So you heard. I don’t know how many times that damned
statement by Mark was quoted as the stupidest invention ever, and it’s become
the mantra, and tech vision crap, all the time about stupidest invention
ever. Let me ask you just a quick
question, Michael, because I know you talk about all technologies. You’ve talked about the greatest and [inaudible
27:00] greatest,
Steve Jobs and Bill Gates and Mark Andreessen and all this. So you’re not a technology idiot. Let me ask you a question. Did you have a CueCat?
Williams: I
did. I was probably one of the
first in line to get one.
Jovan: Did you use it?
Williams: Absolutely.
Jovan: Are you freaking stupid?
Williams: No.
Jovan: Okay.
Well, why would you intentionally use the stupidest invention ever? See? Makes no sense.
What happened? You scanned
it and what happened?
Williams: It
took me to, a little embarrassing the first item I scanned happened to be a box
of Trojans.
Jovan: Very good.
Williams: And
hey, it worked. It scanned.
Jovan: Hopefully you’re looking on your large screen
monitor.
(Laughter)
Williams: No. Mark Cuban does not speak for me.
Jovan: It’s okay. I got that. I’m
just used to addressing it, so let’s talk about that.
Williams: Yes,
I used the device.
Jovan: So before that, were you scanning something on
your own anyway, before that?
Williams: There
was nothing to scan.
Jovan: Right.
You only saw. . .
Williams: Unless
I was at a grocery store.
Jovan: You only saw scanning in the grocery store, and
you’re not a grocery store clerk, are you? No, not at all.
Williams: No.
Jovan: I mean, here’s what you do. You do radio. So let me talk about this. 16 million items at current retail have that barcode on it,
and now – at that time, and now, still, they talk and do something. You could never scan before. Now with a CueCat you could scan. You could instantly get information on
your favorite products. You could
build shopping lists, you could catalogue your books, you could do this, you
could scan for discounts, you could scan for coupons. Does that sound like the stupidest invention ever, that kind
of came out of nowhere but made the whole world talk?
Williams: Let
me just say this, though. Why do
you think, then, the public wasn’t patient enough to wait for the technology
to. . .
Jovan: It wasn’t the public.
Williams: No?
Jovan: The public said yes. Michael, a million people voted with my technology. If I was a governor or a mayor, I would
have won by a landslide. A million
people voted by my technology.
Thousands of people lined up weekends when we’d run our long
commercials, where you could go get a CueCat at Radio Shack. Thousands of people lined up outside
Radio Shack stores to get these free devices that they could never have
before. Thousands and
thousands. I was taking calls from
every radio station in the country, from the biggest to the smallest, saying,
“My G-d, what are all these people lining up for?” It was a huge phenomena.
I don’t care what Mark said or Walt
Mossberg, which we’ll talk about.
What I care about is what America has said, and America said, “I
freaking love this thing”. They
scanned everything in their pantry.
So here’s what happened, I’ll give you a little bit of history. Mark Cuban had bought the Dallas
Mavericks, was the owner of Dallas Mavericks. At the time, Dallas Morning News was the lead print sponsor and
carrier of the Dallas Mavericks stuff, right?
Williams: They
were owned by Belo at the time.
Jovan: They were owned by Belo, right. There was a war going on between Mark
Cuban and Belo about the Mavericks buying advertisement. So Mark did an off-handed comment at me,
which was aimed at Belo, because I was their Star Child. Everybody’s talking about how I’m going
to be the next Bill Gates, which is the title of my one book, The Next Bill
Gates. So Mark took a shot at it, and it got
heard like the shot around the world.
Williams: Yeah,
as do a lot of things he says.
Jovan: Yes.
Ironically you say that, because Todd Wagner – I know Mark and Todd
extremely well. I can still send
Mark an e-mail and I’ll get a reply in five minutes, today. Still happens. Todd, who’s the businessman and the
stabilizing force, one of the first things he said after Mark had said that,
and he came in and met me at my offices at Digital Conversions. I’m trying to figure out how to save my
company at that point. He says,
“Look, I’ll apologize for Mark because Mark doesn’t have an inner filter, and
he just blurts it out”. That’s
okay.
People don’t talk about you if you
do nothing. If I invented the mud
and rock cookie, you wouldn’t be talking about me. We invented something that changed society and became
well-known, and became a pop icon, and will be known forever, even if it lives
as the worst invention ever. So
let’s talk about Walt Mossberg at the Wall Street Journal.
Williams: Okay. Remember what you were saying, but I
just want to get to a point where I want to ask what killed the CueCat.
Jovan: Okay.
Williams: Okay. Walt Mossberg.
Jovan: I’m telling you this. Walt Mossberg, we went to see the Wall Street Journal and I showed him CueCat and let him
scan stuff. It was the same
reaction everywhere. I came in; I
showed my television technology where I could control the PC in the room
through the TV, which was fantastic enough. Then I said, “I’ve done it for print,” and they’d go, “What
do you mean?” I said, “Well, grab
anything in your office”. Walt
Mossberg happened to grab a box of Altoids, the mints.
I gave him the device and I said,
“Swipe it,” boom. There he went to
the Altoid site. He was like, “My
G-d, this is huge”. Then he asked
me, “Well, what are you doing with it?”
Williams: He
was impressed? Because he was known
to have a little bit of a temper on him.
Jovan: No, are you kidding? He had a temper on him? I showed him that, and then I explained that I had released
it in the Dallas Morning News and that Forbes was doing the first interactive magazine, and the guy came
un-freaking-glued.
Williams: There’s
that temper.
Jovan: He came unglued, saying, “I am technology in
America. I introduce – no
technology is introduced without me first, and he became irate. I was like shell-shocked. It was, my G-d. Here’s what I realized.
Williams: Nice.
Jovan: All I could do was leave. The meeting was over then. What the hell am I supposed to do,
right? Beg him? We left, and he wrote the article
saying, “There’s no use for it. I
can’t see a use for it, and there’s not even a use for it if it’s free”. You know why? Here’s what happened.
He was pissed that other papers were becoming interactive before
him. He was pissed because he took
himself as the Technology G-d of the World, and he didn’t do it. So again, it goes back. Why is the Chicago Tribune going to write about a technology
owned by the Dallas Morning News? That’s like
saying, “These guys were smarter then me, and let me tell you how great this
is”. That wasn’t going to
happen. I got triangulated between
the biggest egos in the world, that’s the media egos.
Here’s what killed CueCat. I ran my predecessor company, which was
the television show Net Talk Live, Infotainment Telepictures, and all that,
wildly successful. We grew at
triple digits every year, 100-plus, 133%-plus every year for years. I ran it profitably, I paid my bills on
time, had no debt, had no anything like that. Then Wall Street came in, and Wall Street was all about the
money game. I met Bernie
Madoff. That tells you a lot. Wall Street was playing. . .
Williams: How
gross for you.
Jovan: Yeah.
Didn’t take any money from him, and knew something, but that’s a
different story. Wall Street was
playing the manipulation game. The
chairman of Goldman Sachs asked me, “Jovan, what will make your deal not work?”
and my answer I gave him there, which made him not take me public. We were courting Goldman Sachs, and he
asked me, “What’s going to make your deal not go public?” and I said, “If my
deal doesn’t go public, it’s going to be because the market’s break because of
people like you doing bull-(beep)-dot-com deals out there, because you’re
taking johnsrustytool.com and you’re trying to make some technology out of
it”.
I said, “It’s guys like you that are
going to kill the market. I am not
a dot-com. I’m a software; I’m an
operating system for the internet that makes it talk to the physical word. This little device we’re giving away is
just so we can get it started and we can prime the market. You’re going to be the cause of the
crash of the technology business,” and you know what happened? It came to fruition. Now, I upset him and they didn’t,
conversely, take us public, but here’s an interesting story.
One year later I get a call, it’s
Motorola, Nokia, Ericsson, Connect Things, Metrologic, Symbol, all these
other. I’m called back in by the
same chairman of Goldman Sachs.
They set me down in a room and say, “We’ve decided to go into this
scanning business and connecting, and your patents are in our space, but we’ll
be nice to you and we’ll let you participate. You give us all you have and we’ll give you 1%”.
Williams: 1%?
Jovan: 1%, and I told them, “Are you freaking
nuts?” I said, “The reason you
called me in is because I’ve already beaten you, because I’m already doing it,
and you want to do it, and by the way, you may have 3000 patents collectively,
but my patents are the one that beat you to it, that contemplated what is now
known as scan commerce”. They
didn’t even think about it because they were dealing with scanners. I was dealing with an operating system
and what it could deliver. That’s
why they had me sitting there.
Now, granted, we went down. We were burning $7 million to $9
million a month. That means my
costs of operating the business were $10 million a month. If you have $200 million in the bank,
how many months can you go? 20
months.
Williams: Yeah.
Jovan: It’s simple math, and half of that was spent on
Cats. We grew too fast. We started playing a Wall Street
game. The Wall Street game was to
have the best and the brightest, have these offices, make it look like you were
doing it. I didn’t want to
manufacture 3 million Cats. I
wanted to manufacture 1 million Cats, but once you say what the money’s for,
you need to justify the money; you have to spend it that way. I wanted to completely eliminate the
television division. Didn’t get to
do it, had to go through with it.
Williams: Really?
Jovan: Yeah.
My technology was created to be free all the way around. Now, here’s what I mean by free all the
way around. I needed CueCat to
prime the market. Those had to be
free. You weren’t going to buy a
scanner because there was no need to buy a scanner. I had to evangelize it. I wanted to give out 1000 scanners and show you that everything
in the physical world connects.
The cues, that’s the code, that’s what it was about. Then you could go to a website and you
could get your own cue for anything else.
It was never meant to be an
exclusive product, only for Forbes first, or only for Newsweek, and what happened is the bankers
kind of came in and finessed it, said, “No, you want to be the Rolls Royce of
the Rolls Royce of the Rolls Royce”.
We did it with them first and we pissed off everybody to begin
with. Last but not least, the software
was to be free, everything free. I
had a deal to put it in Internet Explorer. They were going to release it with Internet Explorer 3. I would have had 36 million desktops
installed. Already had it worked
out with Microsoft, [inaudible 39:10] the whole bit.
The bankers say, “You need Bill
Gates to invest. You get him to
invest; your $10 billion of stock is going to be $50 billion of stock. You’ll be on the same level as Bill
Gates”. I couldn’t even do the
deal, because my hands were tied by bankers, to put it in there for free to get
it out, and we would have had 30 million desktops. Got the last laughs, though. Did you know there are 157 million Cat users today? Yeah.
Williams: No,
I didn’t.
Jovan: Well, do you have a cellphone? Do you use any of the scanning apps
right now to connect and look at a barcode?
Williams: Daily,
yeah. Daily, sure.
Jovan: That’s all. . .
Williams: Pretty
much, yeah.
Jovan: RedLaser, E-bay, 50-some odd million
users. Big strategy, E-bay. What we created, what this was all
about, was what we knew in the beginning.
Not the device. This was
about creating a new form of commerce, a new way to communicate, a new way to
operate and connect the physical world with the virtual world. It’s called scan commerce, or
scan-to-connect. Can you scan a
barcode now and get a discount?
Can you go into a store, scan a product, and look at the price from 10
different retailers and decide where you want to buy, either in the store or
online right then?
Williams: Of
course.
Jovan: You use CueCat.
Williams: Of
course.
Jovan: Those are the core of the patents. The patents survived. Most people don’t know it. The patents survived the going down of
CueCat. I couldn’t talk about it
for years. I was never allowed to
talk about it because of all the agreements preventing it. It was bought by very large, very
successful companies. Now that
portfolio, one of the most important portfolios in the world, is licensed by
Microsoft, Google, Cisco, Entail, all these major companies. 133 major companies do this,
E-bay. So if you use any of those
things to connect or get information on a poster, you see the codes everywhere
now. It’s the same thing. It’s just not that little feline
device, which was only a promotional. . .
Williams: Just
your means to and end.
Jovan: Well, it was just a promotional stunt. Cat and mouse for the computer. It made people talk. It was originally K-A-T, Keystroke
Automation Technology. We just
made it be the little c. So now
you had the cues and you had the CueCat.
So you had a cat and mouse for your computer. It did its job, because here we are, 12 years later, and
people still know what it is, and it’s one of the number one selling items on
E-bay. Did you know that?
Williams: I’ve
got to be honest, I didn’t know it was number one but I. . .
Jovan: One of the number ones.
Williams: Okay,
but I do see it on there.
Jovan: Yes.
Williams: [Inaudible
41:33] curious.
Jovan: The free Cat that I gave away, you can now buy,
and people regularly sell for about $9.95 plus $4.95 shipping and handling, and
if you have your original kits, Forbes, or the original Radio Shack mailer, the original Adweek [inaudible 41:48]. If you have them in the box, intact and not open, those are
being sold as collectors’ items, as much as $300 a piece.
Williams: My
goodness.
Jovan: Is that a failure?
Williams: Not
for a bunch of people.
Jovan: No.
This Cat had nine lives, baby.
Williams: Sounds
like you’ve got nine lives, that Cat had nine lives. When we come back, we’re going to talk about where Mr. Jovan,
we’re still good with that, right?
Jovan: Yeah, we’re fine.
Williams: Good. We’re going to talk about where Jovan’s
going to be headed in the future.
[Music 42:16-42:57]
Williams: Okay. Jovan?
Jovan: Yes, sir?
Williams: Still
good with Jovan in this last segment, right?
Jovan: You can still call me by my name my friends
call me.
Williams: Look
at that. Two things while we’re
closing up here. Regrets and where
you’re headed.
Jovan: Regrets and where I’m headed. I’ll phrase the first part in regrets
this way, is most people don’t know that with being such a controversial
company that was a hybrid media company, and all the other media companies
watching you and relishing in the company going down, you took a lot of hits,
but I think it was very hard having to go to the courthouse, being the
chairman, founder, CEO, and inventor of the technology, having to sign the
bankruptcy papers, and having the press there.
That was kind of a kick, and the
same exact day as signing that, two hours later, or four hours later from going
through that horrible bankruptcy and making it final, my wife divorcing
me. That was kind of a kick in the
head, in the gut, in the booty.
Was horrible.
Williams: On
that same day?
Jovan: Same day.
Same day. Very long story
short, but I ended up with a .38 in my mouth, thinking that this was just it,
and the press was just being totally brutal to me. I had to toughen up, get over it, and realize I’m not a one-trick
pony. I have tons of technology
and ideas. Even long before CueCat
I was a raging success and doing items and creating things out of nowhere. So I went on. I went on for my son.
It was good stuff, but I’m going to move on.
Regret. There were a lot of people that gave their lives, time, and
effort to live the dream that became digital convergence, and most of them
started out on the television show, but there were key people along the way,
like Josette Hedger, Luis Viacio, Brandon Brown, Jeff Harris, Mike Simione,
Brandon White, and Brad Smith.
Those core group of people, most of them not getting a salary because we
were a start-up and we just didn’t have the money to do it, and the ones that
did get a salary, working for bare bones that could barely buy groceries,
helped us build the dream. That
was the team that did it for nothing, and didn’t have to be bought, bribed, or
brought in. So those are the
people that really made the dream.
When it came down to having to lay
off, because we grew to over 1000 people, offices in Dallas, Los Angeles, New
York City, Hong Kong, and London, England. Having to lay off people is horrible to begin with. Having to lay off people that had just
joined the company a month earlier was horrible, but because you’re going
public you don’t tell them hey, we might be having some issues. Having to lay off those core people
that helped me make that dream a reality, that is what almost killed me.
So those would be my regrets, but as
I told someone, or someone pointed out to me, you don’t have a $200 million
investment failure or my private worth, based on the values of the company’s,
was right at a billion dollars. I
had created a billion dollar company of value before going public. Not being able to go public, and when
companies are trying to create a billion dollar value by going public. I have a $200 million education on what
to do and what not to do. So I
have a priceless education on really how to do it, balancing the fine line
between Wall Street and what’s real and what’s consumers.
I do think ultimately you bring
technology to consumers and you make it easy for them, you make it fun for
them, and you give it to the world, and it will make its profit as long as your
models are sound, and don’t be exclusive.
Exclusive doesn’t work. We
created a lot of animosity. I’ve
taken a lot of hits for it, being exclusive and thinking you had to be an
exclusive product. No. It was created for everyone, and now
that it’s back to its original mutation, the company went down, the patents
survived. A group of us got
together with the patents. They
all got matured.
I am now, if you look on a global
basis of – there’s three types of inventors. There are inventors that invent inside of companies, like
the General Electrics. There are
the one-up inventors that usually patent an idea, and they are, quote-unquote,
an inventor. Then there are people
like me that are the individual inventors but have a lot of patents. If you look at the global scale of over
8 million inventors globally, I am right now ranked at about number 76 in the
world. If you look at me as
individual inventors, not within a corporate environment like in the United
States, just individual inventors, I’m probably ranked number 10 in the world
of all time.
I’ve beat Nikola Tesla, Steve Jobs,
Bill Gates, a lot of these other people.
The way patents are valued, if you look at patents, because this is
important. It’s not just about
what you create; it’s what the industry spawns, what new industries come from
brilliant ideas.
Williams: Right.
Jovan: It’s not just the advanced underwater basket
weaver machine, it’s did it create the industry of advanced underwater basket
weaving. The way they do that in
the patent industry is, if you’re patent’s good, then there’s usually at least
one more forward patent that references it, meaning another inventor has taken
your idea and improved on it, but referenced your invention.
Williams: Okay.
Jovan: That’s called a one-to-one. You’ve got one reference for your
one. My patents as they sit right
now, for every item I patented, which is in the hundreds, there are 49 brand
new inventions on top of it, or brand new industries. 49. We’re
talking 49-to-1, which is almost unheard of. So if you look at that, it’s very successful that way. It created a brand new industry called
scan commerce. There was no
consumer scan commerce before CueCan or digital convergence. You had no reason to scan, you didn’t
scan for anything. Now you can
scan to price compare, you can scan to shop. It is estimated this Christmas, this holiday season, alone
that people will save over $500 million off retail using scan to compare, scan
to shop, scan to buy, scan to get a discount, and that never existed before
CueCat.
So it’s a whole brand new industry
now called scanned commerce. It’s
estimated there’s about 157 million scan users worldwide. I’ll be you have one on your phone. Do you have a little device where you
can scan a code?
Williams: Sure,
I have a QR.
Jovan: There you are.
Williams: That’s
what I was going to ask, one of the things I was going to ask you. Does that go beyond just the
traditional barcodes? Does that go
for the QR codes too?
Jovan: Yeah.
Anything where you can scan a numeric number, or something that gives a
numeric sequence, and it references to a website, or it references to a
discount, or it references to your ID, is within the middle of my patents. If you go to E-bay and you type in the
number of an auction and it pulls up that auction, where you look at it by
number, that’s my patent. If you
were to drive in Dallas, Texas and you have the little tag on your windshield,
and it takes that number, matches it with a time and date and number where you
go through the toll readers, and then pings it back to my credit card, those
are all my patents. Those are all
spin-offs of what happened from CueCat.
So people know the device, but they
didn’t know the intellectual property portfolio of what it was really designed
to do. All your matching at airports
now, where they scan you and check you in, all of that. All of that is all the original
intellectual property. Just in the
scanning industry alone, the scanning for commerce industry, that means the
people involved with creating the codes or populating the sites or whatever, it
now may have as many as 80,000 employees around the world. So it created probably 80,000
jobs.
Scanning to get your discounts is
part of mobile commerce, but if you look at scan commerce as part of mobile
commerce, it’s now over a billion dollars a year, and in two years it should be
about $22 billion a year So that
little red-nosed kitty that you got for free is now a $10 billion to $20
billion a year industry that has created over 80,000 jobs, and will only
continue to grow, and has grown from our first 1 million users of the connected
device. Now if you look at all the
apps, all the disconnected devices where it doesn’t have to be tethered. . .
Williams: The
phones and stuff like that.
Jovan: 157 million bona fide users that got the app
and are using it, and every device, which is now over 2.5 billion globally,
every cell device, palm device, etc., iPods, whatever that have that camera
feature and stuff and can scan, you now have over 2 billion devices in the
world that can do the function. So
I ask you, is that the dumbest invention ever? Is that not even worth it if it was free? You go shopping today for your
Christmas stuff, you’re going to spend a grand on your family, $200 of that’s
going to go back into your pocket if you’ll just use the application comparing
prices and buying that way. Is
that, even if it’s free, you wouldn’t use it? It’s free today and you can do it, and save that money.
Williams: People
are using it.
Jovan: Yeah, people are doing it.
Williams: Macy’s
shines their QR codes on the screen during their commercials.
Jovan: Right.
So you can now scan off the TV, you can scan off of print. It’s all these disconnected companies
came together under the IP, and now, because the IP is owned by a licensing
company and people can license it, you can license all the features, all the
abilities. We were the first people in the world to take 16 million barcodes
and make them mean something else, other than this is the product and this is
how much it costs at the cash register.
Now everything is connected, and any
place where you want to do a code, whether you do a barcode, whether you do the
next generation Q code, whether you do Q codes themselves, whether you do the
matrix codes, whether you do Microsoft’s new codes, whether you do Google’s
codes, they’re all the same thing.
They’re just kind of doing their own platforms, all based on the same
intellectual property, which, if you were one of the 1 million people that
started using CueCat, you helped hatch a multi-billion dollar industry.
Williams: Well,
then, thank you and you’re welcome.
Jovan: No, you don’t have to say it. That’s why I said the world created
it. We knew what we needed to do.
Williams: You
made that come full circle. It
makes perfect sense.
Jovan: I couldn’t talk about it for years. Here we are, 12 years after the fact.
Williams: And
you did it, by the way.
Jovan: Taking a lot of heat.
Williams: It
was like you packed up and left, and now we know why, is because you were. . .
Jovan: Right.
I couldn’t talk about it. I
was still inventing. It’s come
full circle, and if you understand scanning now, how you can scan the codes,
the posters, movie tickets, or whatever, I am now focusing on – I plan to
change the broadcasting industry.
Of course remember, one of my original technologies was making the
television talk to the PC in the room.
I have a brand new technology that I’m going to completely change the
broadcasting industry. A brand new
type of broadcasting that’s never been done.
Then, I love social media, but
social media has no teeth. I have
created what I call the Teeth and the Hammer for Social Media where I’m going
to give the power to the people to change their lives through social
media. Change. Not post pictures of themselves holding
beers and topless. Power to change
the world.
Williams: You
want to give us a little bit of a hint of what you’re talking about?
Jovan: No.
Williams: No? Well, of course.
Jovan: I can’t.
I’m still going through all the intellectual property stages and such.
Williams: Got
to go see the movie.
Jovan: Yeah.
Here’s what you can bet. We
went from nothing to one day CueCat was everywhere. Everybody was talking about it, the whole thing. If you think CueCat was a big launch,
you have no idea for the next time around. I’ve learned a lot.
I was bruised and broken a lot.
The most important thing is, I didn’t listen to the press and I didn’t
listen to the writers. I listened
to the users, the people that actually use technology. Now it’s easy to monitor that, see
where the holes are, and as an inventor, fill those holes, and I just want to
make the use of technology better.
It should benefit the end user. The companies will always make their
money if you use their technology.
Remember, you can go get the scanning app now, whether you’re using
RedLaser, Shop Savvy, or any of those.
It’s absolutely free. You
scan, you save money. By scanning
the upline company, like Shop Savvy, which is one of the founders of
Facebook. Shop Savvy’s his
company.
Williams: Right.
Jovan: He makes money because you’re using his
technology. Get it out there to
the people and let them use it, and you will change the world. What I would say is, don’t take how the
press beat up on me and CueCat. If
you’re an inventor, here’s the bottom line. Nobody’s going to love your technology like you love your
technology, and if you’re not going to embrace your technology and be willing
to live and die by it, you shouldn’t be doing it. You have to love your technology first. You have to be in love with your idea,
and if you’re in love with your idea and in love with your technology, you will
get it done and it will come to fruition.
Just make sure you get good counsel,
good advice, but don’t let something like CueCat being brutalized and molested
in the marketplace prevent you from following your dreams and living your
ideas, because this country and this world makes it and goes around because
people have the ability to live their dreams, period.
Williams: Well,
we’ve run out of time, and I do want to say a couple of things. From what I do know of you, you’re a
driven man. In looking at your
career for the past maybe 15 years or so, you never sit still. You’re always involved. You’re always doing something.
Jovan: I’m always thinking, and I can’t sit back and
just be an observer.
Williams: You
don’t, and if you’re going to invent. . .
Jovan: It is about invention, and let me just go
there. Look, here’s what happens,
here’s what I got caught up in.
It’s called Drake’s Folly.
Ready?
Williams: Okay.
Jovan: There’s a phenomena out there called Drake’s
Folly. Steven Spielberg
experienced it, Steve Jobs experienced it, Bill Gates experienced it. Steven Jobs, people thought he was
nuts, and [inaudible 57:06] machine and all this other stuff, up and down, up and down,
up and down. It always happens
with technology, but a good technology always survives, regardless of what’s
said about the inventor, regardless of what’s said about the invention when it
comes out. They thought the world
would end when the Ford Motor Company came out. It would destroy America.
Here’s a takeaway I would give with
people. A long time ago there was
a fellow by the name of Edward Drake, and Edward Drake had a revolutionary
idea. Back then, whale oil was
used to do your lamps and whatever the case may be. This happened in Pennsylvania. He got the brilliant idea, the locals, the Indians would go
around and they would scoop the oil that came from the earth off the
ponds. It would collect on the
ponds. Oil and water separates,
right?
Williams: Right.
Jovan: So the Indians would scoop the oil up, and
Drake got the brilliant idea.
Well, if there’s oil on the ponds, it must be underneath. So Drake came up with the idea, I will
drill for oil. He told everybody
about it locally. It was like, “My
G-d,” and he created a driller and he drilled down in the ground. At 60 feet he hit a cavern, a cave, and
he couldn’t go any further. The
bit broke and that was it. The
whole town laughed at him. They
ran him out of town. Everybody
wrote about Drake’s folly, how stupid it is, drilling for oil. You’ve got to kill whales. You’re never going to get oil from the
ground.
He didn’t give up. He kept working. He invented a bit that could hammer its
way through and go down. About 130
feet later he got to it, and he perfected the art of drilling for oil. Do you think that’s affected your life
today?
Williams: Absolutely.
Jovan: Now, we’re talking 100-plus years later. It was known as Drake’s Folly
then. Well, you had my CueCat
folly, but I think we all – the thousand people that built that company and the
million people that agreed to use our technology and started scanning, you
should be proud of yourself. You
created a brand new industry called scan commerce, scan-to-connect,
scan-to-coupon, and scan-to-buy that is here and here to stay. Because of those thousand workers and
because of those million users, there is now a multibillion dollar industry,
because you were willing to scan.
Thank you.
Williams: Jovan,
thank you very much. This has been
an awesome interview. I would love
to sit here and say I debunked something, but I think you’re the one that
debunked me and my misconceptions.
I appreciate you coming.
Jovan: Yes, you can call me Jovan, and I appreciate
it.
Williams: If
you’re ever wanting to do some light reading out there, folks, go to the patent
website, take a look. I did it.
Jovan: You can look at the patent websites. Don’t forget I got two books that count
this. One book is called The
Next Bill Gates
where I kind of give you the ups and downs of believing your own press. My new book coming out is called Patent
Warfare: Battle Secrets For The
War Of A Thousand Papercuts. Look for it in
bookstores, and it talks about inventing and patenting your idea. Michael, thank you.
Williams: Thank
you, Jovan.
(clips
from news and interviews)
Question 1: Everybody seems to ask the same question of you over and
over. I see it everywhere when there are post on discussion groups about you.
The question is: Are you JOVAN or are you HUTTON?
ANSWER 1: Mark, The simple answer is
I am both. My Legal name is Jovan Hutton Pulitzer.
People that have known me for years call me Jovan and people who I am not on a
real close personal basis with call me Hutton. It helps keep business and
personal lives distinct and apart.
People that have known me for years call me Jovan and people who I am not on a
real close personal basis with call me Hutton. It helps keep business and
personal lives distinct and apart.
Question 2: When I asked if you were Jovan or Hutton, that’s not what
I meant. Most people know you had a different birth name. That’s what I was
asking about.
ANSWER 2:
Most people forget I was know in the media world long before the technology
world, and as with most media people or movie people, there are birth names and
assumed names. Like if I asked you if you knew Thomas Mapother IV or Marion
Michael Morrison or even Allen Konigsberg would you even know who I was
speaking about?
Most people forget I was know in the media world long before the technology
world, and as with most media people or movie people, there are birth names and
assumed names. Like if I asked you if you knew Thomas Mapother IV or Marion
Michael Morrison or even Allen Konigsberg would you even know who I was
speaking about?
ANSWER MARK: No, I don’ think I know
those names.
ANSWER 2 Continued: Yes, Mark I am
sure you know who these three people are. In the
order I gave them. Thomas Mapother is Tom Cruise, Marion Michael Morrison is
John Wayne and Allen Konigsberg is Woody Allen. Those are birth names compared
to assumed names.
order I gave them. Thomas Mapother is Tom Cruise, Marion Michael Morrison is
John Wayne and Allen Konigsberg is Woody Allen. Those are birth names compared
to assumed names.
MARK: Continue
ANSWER 2 Continued: So, back when I
was on television in almost every broadcast and
cable television market in the United States, people only saw the name JOVAN. I
basically went by a one-word-moniker like Cher or Sting. People knew me as JOVAN
and some knew that my last name started with a P. Then in the mid 90′s after I
had done a live broadcast of my television series Net Talk Live! in the Dallas
West End Marketplace, we had over 44,000 people show up to watch and
participate with the show.
cable television market in the United States, people only saw the name JOVAN. I
basically went by a one-word-moniker like Cher or Sting. People knew me as JOVAN
and some knew that my last name started with a P. Then in the mid 90′s after I
had done a live broadcast of my television series Net Talk Live! in the Dallas
West End Marketplace, we had over 44,000 people show up to watch and
participate with the show.
Well, during that broadcast, about
halfway through of our two-hour live show, from
across the crowd, and as a matter of fact you can see this in taped versions of
the broadcast, someone pointed a red sighting laser right at my forehead. It
was freaky and frankly had me worried. It happened right as we were headed to a
commercial break.
across the crowd, and as a matter of fact you can see this in taped versions of
the broadcast, someone pointed a red sighting laser right at my forehead. It
was freaky and frankly had me worried. It happened right as we were headed to a
commercial break.
MARK: That would of scared the crap
out of me. Your talking the red lasers that are on pistols and
such?
such?
ANSWER 2 Continued: Yes, and it was
unnerving. Soon as we went to break, my security
guards swept in, scooped my off the stage and got me inside the mall where some
of our other cast members were broadcasting from. Another detachment of the
security team went after the individual, since I was able to see exactly where
the beam came from. They did not catch him but several of us got a good look at
him.
guards swept in, scooped my off the stage and got me inside the mall where some
of our other cast members were broadcasting from. Another detachment of the
security team went after the individual, since I was able to see exactly where
the beam came from. They did not catch him but several of us got a good look at
him.
MARK: But I asked
about your name.
ANSWER 2 Continued: You want a
freaking answer or you want to cut me off?
MARK: I want an answer, but I want
you to get to the answer. Please.
ANSWER 2 Continued: (looking a
little tweaked) Anyway, that situation unnerved me. Then
about two weeks later the same individual, or what I thought was the same
individual, starting hanging around our offices and places we would go with
employees for lunch. I noticed he would try to watch all of our cars and I
tried to avoid him, but eventually he spotted me in my car, and pulled up next
to me and waived as he passed me on the Dallas North Toll Road.
about two weeks later the same individual, or what I thought was the same
individual, starting hanging around our offices and places we would go with
employees for lunch. I noticed he would try to watch all of our cars and I
tried to avoid him, but eventually he spotted me in my car, and pulled up next
to me and waived as he passed me on the Dallas North Toll Road.
MARK: Very same guy? He was stalking
you for some reason?
ANSWER 2 Continued: Same guy, yes
stalking, but I did not know the extent until a month
or so later.
or so later.
MARK: DO tell…
ANSWER 2 Continued: About this time,
I moved my family from one house to a secured gated
community. All the time, since I was in the public and being part of a
technology show – my email was out there, I started getting emails from the guy
commenting on what I had for dinner or lunch or who I met and so on. You know,
really detailed stuff and I never knew anyone was watching and even cared. it
was a little too close to home for me.
community. All the time, since I was in the public and being part of a
technology show – my email was out there, I started getting emails from the guy
commenting on what I had for dinner or lunch or who I met and so on. You know,
really detailed stuff and I never knew anyone was watching and even cared. it
was a little too close to home for me.
MARK: But I asked about your name?
ANSWER 2 Continued: Knock it off!
ANYWAY… few weeks later, first the live broadcast
with 44,000 screaming fans of Net Talk Live and the red laser, then the guy
being around the office and where we went, then the emails and finally, this
guy shows up AT MY NEW HOME. WITH FLOWERS no less. Now since my wife was my
co-host, I thought naturally he was after her, but come to find out HE WANTED
ME!
with 44,000 screaming fans of Net Talk Live and the red laser, then the guy
being around the office and where we went, then the emails and finally, this
guy shows up AT MY NEW HOME. WITH FLOWERS no less. Now since my wife was my
co-host, I thought naturally he was after her, but come to find out HE WANTED
ME!
Mark: He wanted YOU. How do you mean
that? He was after you?
ANSWER 2 Continued: I mean it in the
way he W A N T E D Me. To share his MAN-LOVE with
me in a serious, whether I want to share it with him or not, way. NOW, don’t
get me wrong, I have nothing against man to man love. To each his own, but its got
to be free-will don’t you think?
me in a serious, whether I want to share it with him or not, way. NOW, don’t
get me wrong, I have nothing against man to man love. To each his own, but its got
to be free-will don’t you think?
Mark: LOL, yep, it’s got to be
free-will. LOL
ANSWER 2 Continued: LOL, yep
free-will plays a part and he was not at all my type. I am
not homophobic and you could not even call me straight as an arrow, but this
guy was out to OWN ME. LOL So, after having a face to face, his nose to the
barrel of a .45 conversation he agreed to back off. He did share with me, he
saw me driving my car, took down my license plate and then got online, found my
home address and decided to pay me a LOVE VISIT.
not homophobic and you could not even call me straight as an arrow, but this
guy was out to OWN ME. LOL So, after having a face to face, his nose to the
barrel of a .45 conversation he agreed to back off. He did share with me, he
saw me driving my car, took down my license plate and then got online, found my
home address and decided to pay me a LOVE VISIT.
Mark: You never saw him again?
ANSWER 2 Continued: Nope, never saw
him again and then I began the process of changing
my name and protecting my public records as best I could. So, I was born with
the first name Jeffry. Named that by my mother after German cousin of hers. My
birth middle name was Jovan. Given by my father and in honor of his deceased
brother and a name that has been around in the family since the Third Roman
Emperor – Jovan. And my last name was Philyaw. Me and all my brothers DO NOT
carry my father’s last name and we all have our reasons. Mine is my father
chose women over his children and dropped me on the side of a highway to fend
for myself at 15 and that moment sealed the fate of carrying on the family last
name for me.
my name and protecting my public records as best I could. So, I was born with
the first name Jeffry. Named that by my mother after German cousin of hers. My
birth middle name was Jovan. Given by my father and in honor of his deceased
brother and a name that has been around in the family since the Third Roman
Emperor – Jovan. And my last name was Philyaw. Me and all my brothers DO NOT
carry my father’s last name and we all have our reasons. Mine is my father
chose women over his children and dropped me on the side of a highway to fend
for myself at 15 and that moment sealed the fate of carrying on the family last
name for me.
So, as you may or may not know, for
a MAN to change his name is quite different than a
woman getting married. You have to go through the courts, have various
background checks, local, state and federal and then you are approved and then
you go to court to get it done. You can’t really just randomly change your
name.
woman getting married. You have to go through the courts, have various
background checks, local, state and federal and then you are approved and then
you go to court to get it done. You can’t really just randomly change your
name.
So I started the process and by this
time my wife and I were going to have a son and we
talked about it openly on our television show. In fact, no one in our viewing
or listening audience even knew we were married, until we announced we were
having a son. So, we had already chosen the first name Baron for my son, since
ONE JOVAN is enough. And we had his middle name selected as Hutton. A name that
was not in either of his mothers or my family lines.
talked about it openly on our television show. In fact, no one in our viewing
or listening audience even knew we were married, until we announced we were
having a son. So, we had already chosen the first name Baron for my son, since
ONE JOVAN is enough. And we had his middle name selected as Hutton. A name that
was not in either of his mothers or my family lines.
Mark: Now why Pulitzer?
ANSWER 2 Continued: Hang tight man,
it gets better. I chose Pulitzer because most people
knew my name started with a P, and it was about as odd as my birth name, but
come on, I am a marketing guy and name remembrance or memory ability is the
key. But wait there’s more. LOL
knew my name started with a P, and it was about as odd as my birth name, but
come on, I am a marketing guy and name remembrance or memory ability is the
key. But wait there’s more. LOL
As I am getting ready to get all the
paperwork completed and make the change over,
during that last year of getting everything ready, I happened to of started
DigitalConvergence and now I had dozens of bankers and lawyers and handlers
swarming all around me all hours of the day and they asked me to “hold off”
and not cause confusion with a name change since we were targeting an IPO and
they did not want to confuse the markets. So, I agreed to complete the process
after the IPO and I took stronger security measures with my family and home to
protect us from unwanted “visitors”.
during that last year of getting everything ready, I happened to of started
DigitalConvergence and now I had dozens of bankers and lawyers and handlers
swarming all around me all hours of the day and they asked me to “hold off”
and not cause confusion with a name change since we were targeting an IPO and
they did not want to confuse the markets. So, I agreed to complete the process
after the IPO and I took stronger security measures with my family and home to
protect us from unwanted “visitors”.
Mark: So the name change came before
cuecat and DigitalConvergence?
ANSWER 2 Continued: Yes, I started
it a few years before and held off as not to confuse
the IPO, and then after the IPO, the lawyers, bankers and handlers all agreed I
could call myself what ever I wanted since I would be “The Next Bill Gates”.
the IPO, and then after the IPO, the lawyers, bankers and handlers all agreed I
could call myself what ever I wanted since I would be “The Next Bill Gates”.
Mark: Yes, the next Bill Gates, your
book, we’ll get to that later.
ANSWER 2 Continued: So, I am JOVAN,
will always be called Jovan and that’s what my
friends and family call me. JOVAN.
friends and family call me. JOVAN.
Mark: Can I call you Jovan?
ANSWER 2 Continued: Nice try! But
you and I are not friends and lets see how this gos
for your 98 other questions first. Then maybe.
for your 98 other questions first. Then maybe.
Question 3: Why invent a product that has been as ridiculed as your
CueCat? I mean, it has caught alot of flack, is part of pop culture and still
11 years later get flamed all over the Net. I would
guess you would of heard the saying “Well at least YOU didn’t invent CueCat!”
guess you would of heard the saying “Well at least YOU didn’t invent CueCat!”
ANSWER 3 : I actually LOVE that
saying and I will tell you why later, but let me answer
the initial question. The company was NOT about CUECAT, and my famous invention
was NOT CUECAT. It was creating “Scan to Connect” and
“ScanCommerce”. But in inventing this new form of commerce and
communication I had a big hurdle to overcome. CONSUMERS DID NOT HAVE SCANNERS.
It was like creating this wonderful TV show, but no one owned TV’s, so IF I
wanted them to watch my show, I needed to get them TV’s first. I was about
scanning to shop, save, share and connect. CUECAT was just the device that had
to be created to turn consumers on to Scanning as something they did for
themselves, not something they watched happen at the grocery store.
the initial question. The company was NOT about CUECAT, and my famous invention
was NOT CUECAT. It was creating “Scan to Connect” and
“ScanCommerce”. But in inventing this new form of commerce and
communication I had a big hurdle to overcome. CONSUMERS DID NOT HAVE SCANNERS.
It was like creating this wonderful TV show, but no one owned TV’s, so IF I
wanted them to watch my show, I needed to get them TV’s first. I was about
scanning to shop, save, share and connect. CUECAT was just the device that had
to be created to turn consumers on to Scanning as something they did for
themselves, not something they watched happen at the grocery store.
Question 4: CueCat, the device, and thus you, have suffered some very
critical press and comments, and many times outright ugliness. What do you
attribute that to?
ANSWER 4: I can and will answer that, but first let me share a
key Investors point of view. I met just a few short days ago with Roberth
Dechert, the Chairman A. H. Belo (Dallas Morning News). It was the first time
in 11 years that the two of us met face to face. As the record shows, Belo
invested $40 million in CueCat and thus with the dot com crash and the
subsequent closure of DigitalConvercence, Belo ended up writing off their $40
million dollar investment in Digital.
At our meeting he showed me great
wisdom and insight to “why cuecat attracted such venom from its detractors”. He
said, “Jovan you have to realize, you were the first individual, company and
technology that actually FORCED old school media companies like us to “enter
fully the digital age and become interactive and keep up with the times”.
“CueCat, with the millions of devices that we being manufactured and the
1,000,000 installed devices and users we had in 30 days, forced a newspaper and
broadcasting companies like ours to adapt and adapt now”. “And you know in
newspapers, we were used to doing things the same old way they had always been
done, and along come CueCat and your technology, and the writers, editors and
such were FORCED to adapt and evolve” “We gave them no choice and you know
writers and editors have very strong opinions, and when the dot com bust
happened and DigitalConvergence was boarded up, all those people, those writers,
critics and editors lashed out with the power of the pen and gave all of us
Executives and Investors a huge “I told you so!”. “But now, 11 years later,
you, I and everyone knows, CueCat was right, you were right, our investment was
right and now it cool to be part and immersed in technology”.
Question 5: So you are saying they did not regret losing their $40
million dollar investment in DigitalConvergence?
ANSWER 5: No, that’s not what I
said. I said, the stated they were right in their decision to invest and they
believed then and now in the technology. Of course, from a financial standpoint
they would rather of had their $40 million not be a write off. But even more
than that, they would of rather had their $40 million turn into $10 billion.
Either way, as the Belo Chairman and others close to the deal and the
technology have said “No one could of predicted the turn of financial and
technology events in late 2000 and in 2001 and certainly no one could of
predicted the events of 9/11 and the total market crash and the drying up of
the capital markets”.
Question 6: I am going to come back to other investors later on, but
for now, lets talk about regrets and the achievements. Take either topic you
want first.
ANSWER 6: I’ll take REGRETS Alex
for $1000! LOL, just like a quiz show. My first regret? I was a practicing
ASSaholic?
Mark interrupting: You were an
alcoholic? Boy that would explain the rumors of mood swings!
ANSWER 7: LOL, NO not alcoholic I
SAID , ASS – aholic!
Mark: LOL, that’s very funny. I ‘m
going to have to use that.
ANSWER 6: Feel free to use it. I
was a practicing Assaholic and now I am a recovering Assaholic. In my intensity
and passion for what I do and my tendency to drive hard and expect the maximum
best out of people , I crushed and hurt people and test them to their wits end.
I hurt and crushed people that were loyal and I truly loved them and never
wanted to hurt them. But I could not see I was actually being that way. Looking
back I have no idea how people who loved and cared for me like, Brad Smith,
Kozette Hedger, Brandon Brown, Jeff Harris, Mike Simeon, Bill Hunt, Jack Turpin
and Luis Valecillo ( the real people who helped get Digital started and launch)
ever put up with me. I can truly say it was not intentional, but intentions
don’t matter. I did it, I was brutal at time and I was a total ass. Sometimes
more ASS than visionary. I know now that style plagued many a great innovator
and company creators, Steve Jobs most notably. In fact, my PR person was Steve
Job’s person and she would always tell me “You’re just like Steve”. Now I know
that was both a compliment and a warning. I did not possess a filter to
understand how my energy, words and forceful nature impacted people, or most
people I should say. Steve Jobs was legendary for abusing people close to him
verbally, but I understand the pain he had and why he had it. He with no father
connection, me with no mother connection. But, I may of even surpassed Steve
Jobs in aloofness and arrogance when I was creating DigitalConvergence. I was young,
inexperienced and over eager and forceful. Now I am different.
Question 7: I do want to know how you are different today than you were
11-15 years ago, but first lets stay on regrets and accomplishments with
CueCat.
ANSWER 7: How about I just fire some
regrets off rapid fire and of course HINDSIGHT is 20/20.
A. The day I had to show up at
the Courthouse for the declaration of bankruptcy for DigitalConvergence and
sign the final papers of my company vaporizing was tough. First, the press was
there and of course they took even more shots at me in the newspapers and such,
and then, after having a very intimate morning with my wife and she professing
her love for me and saying “I know today is going to be tough but I love you
and you are strong“; a process server served me with DIVORCE PAPERS just 4
short hours after the final Bankruptcy hearing. Talk about a devastating day.
And at the moment, I don’t want to delve off into that too much more at the
moment or I will end up in tears. So, moving on…
B. We manufactured 1,000,000 P/s2
CueCats and 2,000,0000 USB Cuecats. Looking back, I regret NOT limiting the use
of funds to the FIRST 1,000,000 CueCats and then immediately rolling of the key
fob, key chain, cell phone, PDA and wireless CueCat devices. We were holding
back and never got to launch the wireless, unconnected to the desktop versions
before we tanked.
C. I made THREE specific judgment
errors in Executive Positions within DigitalConvergence, that my gut told me
were wrong but I went with the flash Wall Street desires and did not trust my
instincts., and I kept one Legacy employee that had charisma and talent, but
that talent could never be focused fully and made to be productive for
DigitalConvergence and ultimately that individual who we elevated from cell
phone sales tech, to tech guru to an attempt to turn into a productive
Executive, turned out in the end to cost the company Tens of Millions in losses
and 5 key patents that would be worth hundreds of millions, if not billions
today.
D. and , of course, on top of all
that I was a certified Assaholic and the Microsoft deal .
Question 8: I do want to go over your patents and the patents legacy,
but lets go on to accomplishments you are proud of with CueCat and
DigitalConvergence. And, lets cover later this Microsoft deal you regret.
ANSWER 8: Again, I will do some
rapid fire answers on our accomplishments.
A. There was no need for a
consumer scanning anything on their own and it certainly there was no scan to
connect to the Internet until CueCat and DigitalConvergence. So, we were the
first consumer scanner, and we created the multi-billion dollar commerce sector
that is now “Scan to Connect” and “ScanCommerce”. That’s a huge one I am proud
of
B. 1,000,000 CueCat devices
installed and put in use within the first 30 days. That was huge. At the time,
it was the single fastest adoption to the threshold of 1,000,000 users ever of
a single technology or device. Cell Phones, PDA, PC’s, Internet Dial-Up, ISP
members, VCR’s, satellite dishes and many others, took years and years to get
to the 1,000,000 user mark, yet CueCat the device and CRQ the software platform
took only 30 days to reach that mark. That’s saying something about how much
people really liked “scanning to connect”, CueCat created the market sector and
industry around it and paved the way for the over 150,000,000 scan to connect
users today.
Question 9: I have read and know there are over 150,000,000 scan to
connect app users today. How does that make you feel?
ANSWER 9: Great, acknowledged,
proven right and proud. Back 11 years ago at CueCat launch there was NO NEED to
scan to connect or no need for a consumer to scan . Scanning was for retail and
store clerks. DigitalConvergence and CueCat taught consumers scanning could
mean something valuable and useful to them and now that devices are wireless,
since there was almost none back in 1998-99, look at how many people use
scanning apps. Actually the number may be as high as 166,000,000 users at the
moment and some new apps like FaceBook Co-Founder’s gig, ShopSavvy, I hear they
are doing 54 million connects a month. Even 11 years ago we did a little over
5,000,000 scans the first three weeks. It was huge then and its even bigger
now, but we became the poster child for dog piling on and flaming as a technology.
Question 10: You talked earlier about the ugliness and vile that came out
and amazingly still clings on today in some areas and how you attribute some of
that to being a change catalyst in forcing change of old media to the new media
experience. But, you took some direct hits by huge players in the Industry like
Mark Cuban and Walt Mossberg.
ANSWER 10: Yes, Mark and
Mossberg.
Mark continues: Comments on those
two and others?
ANSWER 10 Continued: I will
tackle Walt Mossberg first. I respected Walt Mossberg and his technology angle,
but when I met him he was not what I expected and his actions surprised me.
My COO and I went to visit Walt and
do a face to face demonstration and interview. At that time, no one knew that
Forbes was about to spring it on the world and that all of the Belo Newspapers
were going to be simultaneously releasing interactive newspaper with our scan
to link and scan to connect technology and the CueCat device. We set the demo
and encouraged Walt to scan any item in his office or on his desk and see that
the bar code could be a link between the physical world and the virtual world.
I think he scanned an Altoids, a sticky note pad and a canned beverage on his
desk. He did it and you could see his face light up. He got it and was duly
impressed. So, then he started to ask what we are doing with it and where do we
see it going. We started sharing our deals and our database of 16 million
connected bar codes and such, and as we lifted the curtain, the man became
unglued and shot up out of his seat and started stomping around the room.
Mark comments: What did you do?
Unveil some of your Assaholic nature to Walt?
ANSWER 10: No quite the opposite.
Actually, if you knew me then, as I do now, I actually record every single
meeting I ever had pitching CueCat and DigitalConvergence and I have copies of
every single email or correspondence ever generated, which I did because I knew
we were about to unleash something huge, impact full and meaningful on the
world. So I wanted accurate records. I have gone back and listened to this
meeting several times over and was at first pissed and now I just laugh at the
arrogance of Walt. I have always been a great documenter since sometimes you
talk sensitive subjects and you need to be able to recall facts and people if
your Intellectual Property are ever compromised.
Anyway, as we were sharing with Walt
what we had accomplished and where we were headed as a technology company, we
told him about Forbes Magazine and others about to launch and that was what he
came unglued over. He jumped up, paced his small office and pumped his fist
stating “I am Technology”, “I am Technology in America, I am the voice of
technology and NO TECHNOLOGY gets introduced with out me being the first to see
it”. He went on to rant., “I should have been the first to talk about CueCat
and DigitalConvergence, and the Wall Street Journal should have been the first
Interactive Newspaper not the Dallas Morning News. We are national and they are
just, just a local paper.” “Why did you not come to ME FIRST? Why did you not
offer this to the Wall Street Journal first? “I , Walt Mossberg, AM technology
in America!”. His faced was flushed and his pitted pores flared open and I was
not only shocked but absolutely sure he was so mad he would have security throw
us out right away. All I or my COO could respond to was “Belo is a huge
investor in the technology and we felt you would want us to prove it worked
first before you covered an untested product on a large scale.” That was it
meeting over and he was boiling and not happy. We were shocked. Especially
since he was amazed at how it worked and then made an about face when he heard
we were already down the road with the launch.
The rest you know, he wrote
something like “poorly designed, and no one would ever want to scan something
to connect to a website and it’s such a bad idea that even if it’s free it
won’t work”. Thus the dog pile started. I realized then that having media
partners as investors was both good and bad. Good they can introduce your technology
to their subscribers, but horribly bad, since the media world is cut throat
competitive and all the others that did not have the technology would shoot it
down at all cost to make a tremendous company like Belo look like fools. And
the war of words and barbs began.
Question 11: Now what about Mark Cuban’s views of CueCat?
ANSWER 11: First, the only views and reviews that matter with
any product are that of the actual users. Users define a product. Not
competition for the same press space from companies trying to enter the same
space as you, not other millionaires or billionaires or tech superstars. Only
USERS matter.
So, the first answer is 1,000,000
users Installed and used Cuecat within the first 30 days and that beat the
growth curve of PC’s, Cell Phones, Internet Usage and all most every other tech
device entry. That speaks for itself.
Now for Marks comment. I have known
Mark for decades and still communicate with him to this day. Mark is talented
and has a blessed life and family. Kudos for him, he parlayed his technology
platform into a huge cash out and now he follows his passions. That is a gifted
life to live. But gifted life does not make someone a seer of the future or
able to correctly predict the future. Conventional wisdom would tell Mark, that
since over 150,000,000 people use scanning to connect or to conduct commerce
now via their connected devices, that he was wrong.
Back when I was building what became
the single largest ISP in any city in the US, Mark has started Audionet.com .
At the same time I had launched the first TV program about the Internet and how
to use it, Net Talk Live! And Mark was our very first on- air Guest. Back then
Mark was just Mark, a dynamic guy with big vision and charisma. Todd Wagner,
his partner was the operator and a rock solid great guy. I admire Todd
tremendously. Shortly thereafter, Mark and Todd offered me a top key position
with their team at AudioNet.com. The deal was I would join AudioNet, handle all
marketing, they would take a 50% interest in my broadcast and Production
Company and I would work for Audionet, soon to be Broadcast.com.
I did not take the opportunity, and
yes, granted I passed up millions in the cash in with the Yahoo buy out, but
even then I was perfecting my technology patents and ideas and I wanted to walk
my own walk and pursue my own ideas of technology on the Internet. I believe
Mark has never forgiven me for not taking his offer – in some weird rejection
of Mark and his vision way, but that was not the case. I just wanted to pursue
my own dreams. When I started DigitalConvergence I even called Todd and asked
if he or Mark or both would join my Board and help me, but they were tied up
(understandably) with Yahoo.
Then as Digital started getting all
the huge press, it happened that Mark via the Dallas Mavericks’ were in an
advertising war with Belo. Of course, Belo was one of my key investors. They
were battling over how much coverage the Belo was giving the Dallas Mavericks
versus Mark spending dollars on adds in the Dallas Morning News. It was a huge
war and I think that part of Mark’s unfiltered comment that “CueCat was the
stupidest invention ever” was a direct shot at Beloto hurt Belo and it was a
shot picked up in newspapers around the globe. So, with Mark taking a shot at
Belo, it helped other papers take their shot at Belo as well, and in turn it
took shots at CueCat, our technology, our company, our vision, our employees
and me. It did hurt, but if you understand who and just how HUGE my partners
were, then you can understand why that took on a life of its own.
But I do find it interesting that
Mark has used that very same comment “The Stupidest Ever” with many things he
has commented on over the last two decades. So, I try not to take it personal
and understand, as Todd Wagner told me, that Mark does not have a comment
filter and can say some very hurtful and degrading things that affect peoples’
lives negatively. And, it is easy to sit atop a perch from on high and take
shots at individuals trying to live their dreams. But Mark can’t be all that
bad can he? He has a great partner in Todd Wagner and that says something. He
has a wonderful wife and precious daughter and that says allot about a man was
well. I am happy for him he is living his sports dream and has made Dallas
basketball fans proud.
Question 12: You don’t sound bitter that a Billionaire called your invention
stupid and took a direct shot at you and caused you great pain?
ANSWER 12: Why should I be bitter? I am not even a spec in the
scope of the world. There are more important things then me going on and, I for
one KNOW, you cannot control what people say about you. People and the press
thrive off dirty laundry and cluster mucks. People are the way they are and
most people have a difficult time with other people succeeding and doing big
things. That’s why you will always encounter statements like “You can’t do
that” or “That won’t work”. It takes far less personal effort to bitch, moan
and complain than to compliment. It takes great concerted effort and wisdom to
find the merit in the work of others. But, once again, at the end of the day,
we created the new industry of scan to connect and scan commerce and have over
120 patents to show it and 150,000,000 users and growing daily, using our
vision and new idea. That’s the real story. That’s the legacy chapter.
The most serious way Mark’s comment
hurt me was, when my wife divorced me, she told me “I had embarrassed her and
was the most hated man in Texas” and then quoted a D magazine article and their
publishing Mark’s “Stupidest Invention” comment. She told me, since she knew
Mark as well, “See even people who know you hate you” then she went on to tell
me I ruined HER reputation. That was when the effects of Mark’s unfiltered
comment hit home with me. It added to the loss of my family, right in the
middle of a tech meltdown. Kinda a one-two punch combo. Lost my business, the
dreams for my employees, my family and my home and in many ways for a long time
my health as well.
Question 13: Microsoft, you mentioned earlier that was a regret, how did
you mean that?
ANSWER 13: Microsoft was a large
sponsor of my Television show. In fact, they even went against their huge ad
agencies advice and sponsored Net Talk Live anyways. We helped them win the
global browser war, when we started with them in our TV show. Back then,
Netscape had 90% of the browser market and the rest was Microsoft and Mosaic.
We did a great campaign with them and in just a few weeks turned that table and
they had 85% of the marketplace in our base DMA and it exploded from there.
That gave us some inside connections
with Microsoft, so once I knew the adoption curve of our technology I went to
Microsoft. One of my investors was Warren Buffet’s Bridge Partner and of course
Bill Gates was the other Partner. You should have seen me running around trying
to prepare for meeting Bill Gates and Warren Buffet. I was a mess. It was tons
of all kinds of pressures to know you were going to lay it all out for TWO of
the richest men in the world. That was stressful. The actual pitch was
delivered in Buffett’s jet headed to a Bridge match. Then Microsoft opened their
doors for us. We were assigned an inside champion to guide the project and the
negotiation began. Microsoft agreed with our vision that the software and the
ability to connect was the real golden egg and that we did not care what device
did it and that the cues (or special bar codes) should be available to all.
They also knew CueCat was a free
promo device only used to evangelize consumers to scanning to connect. CueCat
was never the final device, it was the get it jumped started device. They could
see the future of scan to connect and of linking the physical world to the
virtual world. By that time, all the Wall Street guys were introducing me as
“the Next Bill Gates” in all these huge technology and financial meetings. Wall
Street was pushing for me to get Bill and or Microsoft to invest. They were
telling me “Jovan, you get Bill Gates of Microsoft to invest and your $1
billion in personal stock will be $30 Billion opening day of the IPO”. They
were playing me hard, but all I wanted was Microsoft to include our software
engine in Internet Explorer. In doing that you could enter either a product
code (bar code number) in the address bar or a website address as usual and get
information or a web site. Microsoft agreed, but my bankers COO and others pushed
and pushed for an investment and convinced me that Microsoft should not have
our software engine unless they invested. I took the advice of those around me
and the deal tanked.
Microsoft rolled out the new
Internet Explorer and there were some 36 million installs right way. Our
software engine and CRQ would have been on 36 million desktops ready to start
using, but I trusted my bankers and advisors and it did not come to pass. Back
then, in late 90’s and early 2000 bankers did not care about doing the best or
wisest business, they only wanted IPO run up and huge commissions and they had
tons of sway and influence. I was lead to believe I needed to get an investment
and only an investment from Microsoft in order to make my IPO. That was just
crap advice. In fact, this type of discussion went on many times, being at odds
with bankers versus common sense business. But then again, what happened to all
those Wall Street types and Executives just a few years later, speaks for
loudly.
